From: bogin <bogin <at> YAHOO <dot> CO <dot> JP>
Date: 17 dec 2002
Subject: Re: "art"

Mr. Ito,

Thanks for the interesting post. After reading it, I started me to think
again. I think that you're on the money with your ideas about "art" and
Shogi. As you say, often you'll here commentators use the phrase "Katachi
Zukuri" near the end of games. I admit this is sometimes difficult for me
to comprehend since it sometimes simply seems as a just trying to lose in a
"prettier" way. It is almost like the Pro realizes that their position is
hopeless. Instead of playing a stubborn and unaesthetic move to try and
hang on perhaps win, they decide to lose more "gracefully". In some Pro
games that I have seen, why one player has chosen to resign is not often so
clear to me. I believe that as you say this may have to do more with a
player's playing style (kifu) and personality then simply counting wins and
loses.

I remember a few years ago that Habu played some entertainers and sports
stars just for laughs. The catch was that games would start from the final
position of some very famous games. Habu would play the side that resigned
and the other player would try and finish the game. You would think that in
a position that was resigned by a Pro there would be no hope. Of course, it
wasn't serious but it was surprising how quickly Habu was able to win from
those "lost" positions. In fact, he only lost to one young lady who was
said to be a pretty strong amateur. Obviously. there was more play in those
positions than appeared so perhaps there were indeed other reasons that the
Pro resigned.

Also, your comments on "Katachi Zukuri" and artistic moves brings to mind
to phrase "suji ga ii". You can often hear from commentators that phrase as
well. Sometimes, a commentator will say that there may be two or three
strong candidate moves in a position. However, in the very next sentence
they will say something like that while a certain move is strong it is not
something a shogi professional will play simply because it's not a
"shogi-like" move. Also, sometimes you here someone say that this type of
move is something that a I-Go player would play but not something that a
Shogi Professional would. Even though both moves may win, it seems that the
Shogi Pro is always looking for something a little more artistic and less
brute force like. Or course, it all depends on the position, right?
Usually, the players that have the luxury of 3 or 4 good moves at their
disposal are already probably winning. I think that if most Pro's had to
choose between an "ugly" winning move and a "pretty" losing move then they
would probably choose the former.



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