From: bogin YAHOO CO JP> Date: 26 may 2003 Subject: Re: [ISC Info.] ISC grade & Overseas member system Dear Mr. Niwata, I looked at your rating table and while I think it's really of nice of you and the other members to try and help players improve their shogi, I believe the rating system you intend to use is way too generous and in the long run you're going to do more harm than good. You say that you are trying you make your rating system different from the one used on Shogi Club 24 and more like the ones used at local shogi clubs here in Japan. I have never been to or even heard of a shogi club that offers a 1300 rated player the rank of 3 dan. In fact, I believe that in order to achieve a FESA 3 dan or an USSF 3 dan rank a player would have to consistency perform at around a 2100 or above level. ( I apologize if I got the exact number wrong but I'm pretty sure that it's nowhere near 1300). Also, even here in Japan the Japanese Amateur Association 3 dan rank begins at 2000 points. A rating of 1300 is only consider a 3 kyu according to their rating guidelines. According to your system, each win is worth 3 points, each loss is worth 1 point, each each time you show up you even get 1 point. It takes 30 points to get your 3 dan so a person can win 5 games, lose 10 games and participate watch 5 times to get the 30 points needed to become a 3 dan. Also, each practice lesson game is worth 2 points regardless of the result. Finally, a match game win is worth 5 points, a loss is worth 3 points and just taking part is worth 2 points.Your seem to take into account difference in playing strength. Whether you beat a player 400 points higher than yourself or 400 points lower than yourself doesn't seem to matter at all. I know everyone (including the site moderator) says that Shogi Club 24 under rates everyone by 300 or 400 points. I agree that there are always exceptions but Shogi Club 24 has over 13,000 members so I think that's a pretty good size pool of players to compare yourself against. It's not a perfect system, but, overall, I actually think it's a pretty good indicator of a person's actual strength. But, that's a different argument for another time. Shogi Club 24 still it's 3 dan rank at 1900 points so even if you take 400 points from that you still end up at 1500. A 1300 rating at Shogi Club 24 is only a 3 kyu. That's 6 ranks lower than the 1300 3 dan rank you're proposing. In the end, it's your Internet group so you really can do what you want. You can even give out certificates if you want but what would they really mean? I think it's better for the long term development of shogi to try and standardize or at least bring the various rating systems as close together as possible. Then players will truly be able to measure there progress. Does anybody else have an opinion about this? Am I the only one who feels this is a little strange? If so, it wouldn't be the first time I was mistaken. :-) Bill Gaudry (driver 8) NSR 2 dan, Shogi Club 24 2 dan. --- Yoshi Niwata SEA UCATV NE JP> $B$+$i$N%a%C%;!<%8!' (B > Dear Shogi friends, > > We are happy to announce the following two things concerning ISC > (International Shogi Club). > > (1) ISC grade system for ISC event > We are introducing ISC grade for ISC event (monthly game etc.). The > purpose > of ISC grade is to give a rough idea which Dan/Kyu you would be > because the > grade used in Shogi ckub 24 is too tough and has less meaning to show > the > actual grade. For example, I am 7Kyu in Shogi club 24 but I am 1 Dan > (Syo > Dan) in the actual shogi life in Japan. In addition, we would like to > offer > the practical measure you are improving step by step through ISC > events by > referring your ISC grade move. Please note that our main purpose is > to give > the positive motivation to play in our event, not to set the precise > grade > internationally. That should be another discussion, we think. > > We attached the grade table (tentative) and the detailed explanation. > > (2) ISC Overseas member system > After the monthly game in May, we are asked by two overseas guests to > join > ISC as a member. We are very happy to have a member from overseas as > a shogi > friends and enjoy together!! Then decided to start ISC overseas > member > system as below: > > The members > - Can join by free > - Can participate ISC monthly game > - Will receive ISC mail list with useful shogi information > - Receive Grade certificate of Nihon Shogi Renmei* by free at least > once a > year. This year, we plan to send members the small card certificate > in > Christmas card!! > > *Note : Relationship between ISC grade and Certificate by Nihon Shogi > Renmei > (NSR) > Although there is no relationship between ISC & NSR, as I am > personally an > official instructor of NSR, I can give the certificates of NSR. > Also we aim to design ISC grade to be the same level as that by Nihon > Shogi > Renmei. > > > Hope you find this useful and if you are interested to join ISC > members, > please let us know. > > > Thank you, > > > Yoshi Niwata (Leader of ISC) > > ATTACHMENT part 2 application/msword name=GradeTable.doc __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! BB is Broadband by Yahoo! http://bb.yahoo.co.jp/