From: Larry Kaufman comcast net> Date: 9 nov 2005 Subject: Re: Japanese Elo-Rating Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: ------------------------------------------------------------------- Oprah vs Dr. Phil- who is your favorite? Vote now. http://click.topica.com/= caaeatsa2i6YsbnuqMaa/Your opinion ------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, that is I, but that's my rating from six years ago, when I last= =20 played on the Tokyo Amateur rating system before last month. My new rating= =20 should be somewhat higher, but still in the 1500s. My son Raymond should= =20 also be on the old list in the lower 1400s, also from six years ago. The= =20 ratings move slowly, because you only get 12 points for beating an equal= =20 player. Also, you often either get paired way down, and only get a few=20 points when you win, or way up, which means a nearly certain loss. So one= =20 needs a lot of games to get an accurate rating on their system; roughly=20 forty games should do it. Some players on their list have thousands of=20 games, even over 5,000! Larry Kaufman ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "bogin" yahoo co jp> To: topica com> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 7:33 PM Subject: Re: Japanese Elo-Rating Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: ------------------------------------------------------------------- Oprah vs Dr. Phil- who is your favorite? Vote now. http://click.topica.com/caaeatsa2i6Ysa7fLLna/Your opinion ------------------------------------------------------------------- Mr. Kaufman, It looks like there is at least one non-Japanese person on the lists you mention. That person's name is the only one written using Katakana letters (which are commonly used for foreign names). However, it is quite possible that there may be some Chinese and Korean players or other non-Japanese players of Japanese descent on the list as well. It would be hard to figure= out who they are if they use Kanji characters for their names. Anyway, the non-Japanese name I saw is ranked #2366 with a rating of 1515 at 12 games played. Actually, I think this may be you since the katakana spelling seems similiar to what might be used for your name. It can be Riley Kauf but it could also be Larry Kaufman. The name looks abreviated due to space limitation. More than likely your last name requires more characters than they could fit in. Not saying it is you but it could be. Bill Gaudry --- Larry Kaufman comcast net> =1B$B$+$i$N%a%C%;!<%8!'=1B(B > Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > New Apple=1B$B!&=1B(BiPod=1B$B!&=1B(Bnano. As Thin as a No. 2 Pencil. Sto= res up to 3 > Days of Songs! Get it Here FREE*! > http://click.topica.com/caaeatBa2i6Ysa7fLJaa/Superb Rewards > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > I note that the list shows Segawa has only played 87 rated > games, > whereas most of those above him have played hundreds. Since he had to > work > his way up from 1500, this probably accounts for his relatively > "poor" > standing. I played the fifth-ranked Pro 3 Dan in a rated game last > month, > and his rating was also in the low 1900s. This gives you some idea of > how > strong are the players on this rating list. > The lower ratings vs. Japan Amateur Shogi Association don't > imply a > "different system", just lower starting ratings. Roughly speaking > just add > 500 to Tokyo Ama ratings for comparison. > By the way, Japanese characters don't show up on my computer (or > on the > computers of many of our subscribers), so we can't read the names on > this > list. Whenever the new list comes out, could you possibly list any > non-Japanese names on the list with the ratings for us? If so, thanks > in > advance. > > Larry Kaufman > > > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: "Richard Sams" parkcity ne jp> > To: topica com> > Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 12:26 AM > Subject: Re: Japanese Elo-Rating > > > It is interesting to note that Segawa is only ranked 27th in this > list, > with a rating of 1940. In the list of the Japan Amateur Shogi > Association, Segawa is ranked 7th with a rating of 2407 (the highest > rating is 2477), so presumably they use a different system. > > Richard Sams > > > On 2005/11/08, at 13:58, Larry Kaufman wrote: > > > Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > FREE DVR > > And up to 3 additional standard receivers! > > Call 1-800- 901 - 5080 Today > > http://click.topica.com/caaeas1a2i6YsbqdEI9a/DirectSatTV > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > http://homepage2.nifty.com/toushouren/rankingtop.htm > > > > This is the page for the rating list of the Tokyo Amateur Shogi > > > Association (I may not have the name exactly right.). They use > pretty much > > the same Elo system as FESA or ShogiDojo or Japanese Amateur > Renmei, > > except the ratings move a bit slower than ShogiDojo since they use > 12 per > > win +/- 3% instead of 16 and 4%. Also they start everyone at 1500 > so the > > ratings are lower than on the other systems, since the average > player on > > their system is probably at least 3 Dan by normal standards. The > top > > players on this system (Amateur title-holders and Shoreikai 3 Dan > pros) > > are rated in the 1900-2000 range. Several western players (myself, > my son > > Raymond, the French player Nguyen, and the Icelander Jensson, at > least) > > should appear on their next rating list. > > > > Larry Kaufman > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jochen Drechsler" > web de> > > To: topica com> > > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 9:45 AM > > Subject: Japanese Elo-Rating > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > in the latest e-mails I heard you talk (!?) about the Japanese > Amateur > > Shogi > > Federation and Tokyo Amateur Shogi Association. It also sounds as > if they > > use a elo rating system. > > Can you show me a link to their homepage? > > Do they use an rating-system similar to the FESA elo-system? > > If yes, were can I find rating list? And how do those ratings > correspond > > to the FESA rating? > > > > Jochum. > > > > > > shogi topica com schrieb am 07.11.05 15:28:45: > >> > >> Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> Oprah vs Dr. Phil- who is your favorite? Vote now. > >> http://click.topica.com/caaeatsa2i6Ysa7fLJJa/Your opinion > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> Two comments: I don't understand the talk about a "gap" > between > >> amateurs and pros. Obviously pros are much stronger on average > than > >> amateurs, even amateurs who participate in national championships. > But it > >> is > >> also clear that there is some overlap, i.e. that the top few > amateurs are > >> stronger than the weaker pros. It is the same in chess: some > players > >> without > >> an international title are stronger than some who have it, but > none > >> without > >> it are as strong as the title contenders. > >> Second point: Of course it is obvious that there is no > non-Japanese > >> player who is even remotely close to Pro strength. With the > various > >> rating > >> systems we have now (Shogi Club 24, Pan-Atlantic, Japanese Amateur > Shogi > >> Federation, Tokyo Amateur Shogi Association, etc.) it is quite > clear how > >> far > >> any particular individual is from pro strength, and currently no > one is > >> closer than about a bishop handicap from the lower pro levels. The > > >> question > >> is, if some westerner, presumably a top-level chess player, makes > the > >> switch > >> to shogi and demonstrates that his level is indeed on a par with > average > >> c2 > >> class pros, but he is over the 20 year age limit to join > Shoreikai, what > >> would be done for him (or her)? > >> At the minimum, I believe that the Renmei would let him join > the > >> Shoreikai if he were still under age 30. Otherwise, if he > demonstrated > >> similar results to Segawa, don't you think that a similar test > would be > >> arranged? I know it's all highly hypothetical, but it's not > totally > >> unreasonable to imagine a young grandmaster making the switch and > >> reaching > >> pro strength. > >> > >> Larry Kaufman > >> > > ______________________________________________________________ > > Verschicken Sie romantische, coole und witzige Bilder per SMS! > > Jetzt bei WEB.DE FreeMail: http://f.web.de/?mc=3D021193 > > > > Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > So Much Television, Such Little Time! In Love with Lost(TM) or > > Devoted to Desperate Housewives(TM)? 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Vote now. > http://click.topica.com/caaeatsa2i6Ysa7fLLnf/Your opinion > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Oprah vs Dr. Phil- who is your favorite? Vote now. > http://click.topica.com/caaeatsa2i6Ysa7fLJaf/Your opinion > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail - supported by 10million people http://pr.mail.yahoo.co.jp/10m/ Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor: ------------------------------------------------------------------- Is your computer freezing up or slowing down? 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